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Purpose Beyond Motherhood - Finding Your God-Given Purpose Beyond Infertility And Motherhood

Welcome to the Purpose Beyond Motherhood Podcast. Together we are using our voices to walk alongside women navigating infertility and motherhood. Our heart behind this podcast is to make sure no woman walks this journey alone. We want to share hope in the hard things and encourage you to be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, and faithful in prayer.

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Purpose Beyond Motherhood - Finding Your God-Given Purpose Beyond Infertility And Motherhood

Navigating Grief and Loss with Dr. Barbara Byers

February 20, 2023 • Twelve 12 Ministries • Episode 95

To grieve is to know that you’ve loved.

Navigating grief and loss can be so lonely, but we can take heart in knowing that we are not alone. Our Heavenly Father is ever present, and He will provide the strength and peace we need to get through each day. In 2 Corinthians 12:9, the Word says “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”. Let’s lean into that truth from God’s Word today.

In today’s episode, we dive deep into navigating grief and loss with Dr. Barbara Byers. Dr. Barbara is a counselor with over 20 years of counseling practice, an author, a speaker, a seminar leader, and a podcaster. She believes in the transformative power of God’s abiding presence in everyday life.

It is our hope and prayer that this conversation will bring validation, hope, and encouragement to those who listen. You are in our prayers and we are here for you!

Be on the lookout for Dr. Barbara Myers’ new book coming out titled The Voices of the Soul: The Song of Transformation.

Episode Highlights:

Intro to Dr. Barbara Byers
Grief and the loneliness it brings
Tasks of Grief

Links Mentioned in Episode/Find More on Purpose Beyond Motherhood and Dr. Barbara Myers:

00:01.52
Holly
Hey ladies we are so excited that you are joining us today. We have a super special guest that is really dear to my heart. Um, her name is Dr Barbara Byers hi Barbara Sweet Nicole

00:11.46
twelve12ministries
Hi Barbara but.

00:11.59
Barbara Byers
Hi Hall lady on well here.

00:17.92
Holly
Okay, so I'm going to just give you I want to get like right to the meat with Barbara because she is just pure gold. So I'm going to give you a little bio info about her so you can know how legit she is because she is legit and then we're going to just jump right into some goodies from the lord.

00:33.78
twelve12ministries
Yes.

00:35.54
Holly
So Barbara is actually a um, a counselor and she actually is has her doctorate in counselor education from Regent University she is just recently retired from a 20 year counseling practice which I think is incredible. She is an author a speaker a seminar leader a podcaster as well. And she just really believes in the transformative power of god's abiding presence in everyday life Barbara actually lives in the Dallas Fort worth area and has her 4 adult children that are all across Texas and her 11 grandchildren which is a whole lot.

01:06.43
twelve12ministries
Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's.

01:08.73
Barbara Byers
Um, you are.

01:12.80
Holly
Um, but you can catch her 50 minute podcast wherever wherever you listen? Youtube um, and also she both are under under. Oh my gosh all both are on Youtube will she will also be coming out with a book this year called the voices of the soul. The song of transformation.

01:21.90
twelve12ministries
Um, you be you? It's all good. Yeah yes.

01:29.69
twelve12ministries
Who Okay I'm like I didn't know I didn't know some of those things so that was great in the book. Okay I love it transformation. Love that.

01:31.57
Holly
I Just wanted y'all to know all of that before we started but how cool is that title.

01:37.50
Barbara Byers
Hope Spring Hopefully this spring So we'll we'll see. Yeah.

01:39.98
Holly
E ah.

01:44.71
Holly
I can't wait to get my hands on that. So Barbara also 1 more thing she's actually a lot of the reason why I went into my counseling she she saw me when I was 18 in high school when I was giving my parents a little trouble and um, worked with my family and then I actually saw her a little not that long ago.

01:53.95
twelve12ministries
Um.

02:00.91
Barbara Byers
Ah.

02:02.20
Holly
Just for a little little visit. Um, but she's just truly a gift to everyone. She meets.

02:08.89
Barbara Byers
Yeah, what I remember from those days you know in your teenagers quite a while back is um, kind of giving you a voice you finding a voice the right with your parents and that's so that's so important for women to find their voice.

02:16.81
twelve12ministries
I know.

02:16.97
Holly
Yes.

02:24.58
twelve12ministries
Yes.

02:26.53
Barbara Byers
It's just beautiful. It's what God's created us for. So yeah, hope.

02:30.15
Holly
That's so good. That's so good. Okay, so today I asked Barbara if we could talk a little bit about grief and just loss and um, what that looks like as a believing woman and just how to navigate that a little bit better. Um, she is just a wealth of knowledge about these things and so I thought it would be helpful just to let her share really whatever is on your heart Barbara about navigating grief walking through grief walking through loss and and staying faithful and faith filled through it.

02:59.80
twelve12ministries
Yes.

03:01.36
Barbara Byers
Yeah, Well thanks so much for having me I apologize for my little bit of hoarseness here just getting over something I think um and and I know your podcast is helping women who are walking through Infertility. Or Miscarriage or even loss of a child and so I think that is a very very specific kind of Grief. We as women are so beautifully designed by God in our feminine and.

03:26.61
twelve12ministries
E.

03:28.90
Holly
Ah, we.

03:37.65
Barbara Byers
We really are pointed toward Whatever we're doing but we're always pointed toward relationship toward Nurture. We are defenders and protectors of relationship and um. And we want babies. It's just in our nature I would say most women you know there's a different call on their lives but we are those who hold and protect life and so when we feel ready for that. Um.

04:07.47
twelve12ministries
Are.

04:08.61
Holly
It's good.

04:14.45
Barbara Byers
And we're not able to see that happen immediately or after a time or after a long time or we get pregnant and there's loss I know I've had I have 4 children living children but I had 3 miscarriages as well. And it's a particular kind of loss and so um, we um, we can sometimes feel like even our own body has betrayed us you know and and we can even get into this. You know what's wrong with me and.

04:44.70
Holly
Answer.

04:52.94
Barbara Byers
Why can't I have a child or hold a child in my womb and it just because Grief is about love and loss and longing. We can feel.

05:04.27
Holly
Yes.

05:07.81
Barbara Byers
Such a deep bereavement such a deep longing and loss when we can't get pregnant or or it's taking a long time or when we've been pregnant and there's been a loss I mean just in our heart. It's almost like we feel bereft. You know.

05:23.63
Holly
Very.

05:26.63
Barbara Byers
Not just about the loss and the love and the longing. It's also that we feel lost you know and we can begin to say who am I and what am I about and and and you know the question we always ask in our pain. Why is this happening to me. What. And it can be confusing and it can be lonely and I love that y'all are doing this because it closes some of that loneliness Gap I'm not here out alone I'm I'm not lost in some wilderness you know there are other women. Who are experiencing this other couples and they understand and they're they're speaking into this and I'm feeling part of a community which is really significant for our suffering and our healing. When we have community and when we have Support. It's one of the key things that we need and I've listened to y'alls podcasts before and it's just so fresh and delightful and fun as well as you know, deeply encouraging. So um, you know on this side of grief. Shoot We're just not going to understand it. We're not and part of our longing to understand it is well for one thing we're meaningmaking creatures right? God made us that way. So We always want to understand you know what's happening but the other part of wanting to understand is if I can.

06:39.28
twelve12ministries
Um.

06:44.87
Holly
Earth is.

06:47.91
twelve12ministries
Um.

06:55.24
Barbara Byers
Understand it. Maybe I can get a handle on it or let's just use that word control. You know maybe I can control it a a little better and so I'm trying to make sense of it and I'm stumbling around through it. But God knows right? where we are and right what we're in.

07:01.58
Holly
Let's.

07:02.14
twelve12ministries
Um, yeah, yeah.

07:03.80
Holly
Yes.

07:14.46
Barbara Byers
And it is his heart to walk with us through it. It's his heart to give us peace and strength and joy and for us to remember his name is Emmanuel god with us.

07:23.97
twelve12ministries
Yes, thus.

07:28.10
Barbara Byers
Me that is the answer to all of it and I know it can sound simplistic but in our suffering and this is a particular kind of suffering that he is with me that he created me that he knows.

07:28.10
Holly
That's so good.

07:46.72
Barbara Byers
There's a verse in isaiah forty I think it says um you said Israel my way is hidden from the lord but our way isn't hidden from the lord and that was written by a man going. do you see do you know

07:53.77
twelve12ministries
Are.

07:58.68
Holly
Um, faith.

08:02.33
Barbara Byers
You know and then he goes on to say do you not know, have you not heard the everlasting God The creator the ends of the Earth He doesn't grow weary his understanding is inscrutable and he'll give strength to the weary so he does know and a manual is with us and he will.

08:08.45
twelve12ministries
Yes.

08:17.10
Holly
Let's get.

08:21.86
Barbara Byers
Enter in into our suffering with us and that's a beautiful part does he lift it off like we wish like we want like you know oil. Sometimes it is it guaranteed no is our understanding guaranteed. No.

08:25.80
twelve12ministries
Neil.

08:30.48
twelve12ministries
Um.

08:31.86
Holly
Yes, um.

08:41.75
Barbara Byers
But is his presence promised is it guaranteed Oh yes and it's not a matter of always feeling it. But it's a matter of practicing his presence I know you're a with me I don't get it I don't understand and I'm hurting so bad but you're with me.

08:47.11
twelve12ministries
Are.

09:01.64
Barbara Byers
And I love ah I love some of the people in the bible who just lay it out there I mean goodness when I've been in times of suffering I stay in the psalms you know Dave did went through so many different things and he sort of put himself through some of that like we do.

09:04.11
twelve12ministries
So.

09:05.60
Holly
Is.

09:11.24
Holly
And.

09:19.74
Barbara Byers
We treat will burn stuff. But um, it's all there. He just he lays it out and I think it's in psalms 62 it says pour out your heart to the lord. So one of the things we need to do. We're in these places of.

09:21.28
Holly
Um.

09:38.28
Barbara Byers
Grief and questioning is we need to keep a spiritual journal. We need to draw on it. We need to write it and it needs to be raw and unedited. We can scream we can laugh. We can go on beating my fist on your chest God Ah it just hurts so much I don't know but another.

09:42.76
Holly
It's good.

09:49.48
twelve12ministries
Um, and.

09:54.13
Holly
Are.

09:56.96
Barbara Byers
David is beloved in the psalms. Another guy who's pretty unusual is um, um, she's me Jeremiah. So yeah god called him to some strange things.

10:06.90
Holly
Ah.

10:11.30
Holly
Are.

10:11.60
Barbara Byers
And some real suffering and so we get to ah the fifteenth chapter of Jeremiah and he said something so evocative and so poignant he says why is my pain perpetual and my wound incurable refusing to.

10:29.20
Holly
Ah.

10:29.25
twelve12ministries
Um.

10:30.72
Barbara Byers
Wow! And really, it's it's it's if you read those verses. It's couched in with some accusation toward God you deceived me and you know all this stuff but we can feel that way you know women with infertility are waiting. Um.

10:36.66
Holly
I live.

10:48.41
Barbara Byers
Waiting and waiting or just having suffered the loss of miscarriage and so on it can feel like my pain is perpetual and my wound is incurable I just don't see any way for this to be healed and then we can go off into avoidance. Which wouldn't we all like to avoid pain. We have a lot more ways of doing avoidance. Um ah was and addictions. um um I know after 1 of our miscarriages I gained a whole lot of weight I just think I ate my pain for a while you know it.

11:07.43
twelve12ministries
Um, but.

11:09.20
Holly
Ds.

11:22.33
Holly
Famous.

11:25.26
Barbara Byers
Um, but god calls us back to something and what he says in answer to Jeremiah I think is remarkable because I think okay god man he's just lighted out there and this man is just. Suffering moment by moment. What are you going to say to him I think you're going to explain this and tell him how great it's going to be so we're in Jeremiah fifteen I don't know about verse 19 and god says to Jeremiah this little phrase that has stuck with me for years. He said. If you will extract the precious from the worthless and it reminds me of Isaiah saying talking about the hidden treasures of darkness and so it's like ah Jeremiah reached down.

12:07.84
Holly
Oh.

12:22.55
Barbara Byers
Into that painful mess where you don't see any light right now reach down and pull up the pearl extract the precious from the worthless and I'm wearing.

12:38.83
Holly
It's good. Oh.

12:41.15
twelve12ministries
See.

12:41.38
Barbara Byers
Both of my pearl rings today was on because God he wants to give his daughters his pearls. He doesn't leave us alone in our suffering. We don't always understand it. We can't avoid it but he has purpose in it.

12:49.54
twelve12ministries
M so.

13:00.37
Barbara Byers
And if we're willing to stay the course and say I hate this. But I trust you I don't understand but I surrender I don't know where it's going and I want this so much I want this.

13:11.44
Holly
Um, it's good.

13:16.78
Barbara Byers
My longing and my yearning is palpable but you're greater and I trust you more and I long for you more we're we're gonna see the lord move so there was a quote. And I I know I'm doing all the talking. So y'all interrupt me if you want to because I can go on and on you know, So Ah we grieve we grieve because we've loved and when we Invest. Love.

13:33.68
twelve12ministries
No, we're just we're listening I am loving this please do.

13:38.12
Holly
Ah, also.

13:46.20
Holly
And this.

13:49.21
twelve12ministries
Um.

13:51.57
Barbara Byers
There's always that possibility of loss. There's always that passion. You know that can go unrequited and ah, let me see if I can find this real quickly. Oh yeah, let me just go to job for a second because he's another woo.

13:55.51
twelve12ministries
Um.

13:55.60
Holly
Yes.

14:07.80
Holly
Um, yes.

14:07.21
twelve12ministries
Yeah, yeah.

14:10.38
Barbara Byers
Heavy grief job and job 6 says if only my anguish could be weighed and my misery be placed on the scale. What a picture if I could take my heart and you see how heavy it is and there can be such heartache in this. But.

14:17.40
Holly
Um, wow.

14:17.69
twelve12ministries
Um.

14:28.34
Barbara Byers
A chapter later he goes on talking about his misery and tossing and turning all night and is just this deep futility and he says he calls it anguish of spirit. What what a word you know that misery that has just turned into such anguish and he says.

14:39.64
Holly
Earth.

14:47.49
Barbara Byers
And he let his grief take him into hopelessness for a while and into self pity and I've done that and it's really I had somebody call me out on it one time I was like put I'm just grieving and then later I took a floor me said like they're right, You have spal.

14:50.98
twelve12ministries
Um.

14:52.40
Holly
Earth.

15:02.68
Holly
Alert us.

15:06.19
Barbara Byers
Down into self pity and self- pity is about entitlement. You know it' narcissistic. It's oh me and my pain and and it's ah I don't deserve this I'm entitled to something better than this but we're all going to have suffering and it humbles us Anyway, he says.

15:08.77
Holly
Earth.

15:11.81
twelve12ministries
Um, oh oh.

15:20.40
twelve12ministries
Um, move.

15:21.00
Holly
Who is from the desk.

15:21.74
twelve12ministries
Um, yeah.

15:25.97
Barbara Byers
My days come to an end without hope this is Joe being pretty dramatic in the seventh chapter and he goes on for 20 chapters like this if you've read so easily. It's like this want to speak to the end but the last chapter is worth it all right? because it's oh.

15:35.68
twelve12ministries
Um, yeah.

15:36.89
Holly
It's really in it.

15:41.12
Holly
With earth.

15:45.80
Barbara Byers
I mean he his children died he everything financial even his wife was like oh curse God and die his friends kind of go nuts on him and he says at the end I heard about you and you know I thought I'd know you but now.

15:46.30
Holly
If.

16:02.50
Holly
Ah screen.

16:02.86
Barbara Byers
My eyes have seen you. It's like now you took me through this and you didn't really spare anything but now I see who you really are and then we see this enormous restoration children and you know goats and sheep and.

16:04.51
twelve12ministries
Are.

16:21.38
Barbara Byers
All this stuff and he but he discovered who God was I'm still looking for that quote image. Just ah yeah.

16:26.52
Holly
No I Love I Love you talking about grief as a sign of love someone said that to me after our miscarriage. They said the sign of great grief is great. Love and that kind of just shifted instead of focusing on the emptiness of grief that took me to the fullness that comes with the love side of it.

16:29.30
twelve12ministries
Um.

16:44.30
Barbara Byers
Beautiful yes and we don't lose that life I all think of I felt like I had 3 sons in the miscarriage and I still think of them and you know what a mama needs she needs to know who her children are.

16:46.26
Holly
Which I think is so sweet. Yeah, um.

16:51.26
twelve12ministries
Um.

16:59.34
Holly
Um, yes, yes.

17:03.24
Barbara Byers
Know where those his voice are and know who they're with and I know the safety and the joy and that you know some someday I'll be with them so I found it. This is from all Annie look oh well.

17:03.72
twelve12ministries
Ah.

17:16.81
twelve12ministries
Um, but.

17:18.51
twelve12ministries
Um, oh it's all good. Yeah.

17:19.72
Holly
Ah, no ma'am.

17:21.63
Barbara Byers
Okay, it's up say there this is in Lamont in traveling mercies and she says grief ends up and we don't get over it. We don't move on grief is about adapting accepting the loss making new meaning from it.

17:39.36
Holly
Earth.

17:41.58
Barbara Byers
Greek ends up giving you the 2 best things softness and illumination. So she's saying dearness of heart and light. So let me go on.

17:47.40
twelve12ministries
Oh.

17:47.28
Holly
Wow.

17:56.30
Barbara Byers
And it really does suffering tenderizes something in our heart if we let it have its way and we keep trusting and laying our heart before the lord so ah Shana Nequist who wrote a book recently I guess I haven't learned that yet.

17:59.28
Holly
A.

18:14.90
Barbara Byers
I like what she said about the illumination piece the light look for the good even in the dark especially in the dark once you train your eyes for tiny glimpses of goodness. You'll get better at seeing them. And you'll see more and more and more and they'll keep you company and keep your heart tender. She's coming back to the softness the tender we're looking for the light they'll keep your heart tender as you long for daylight because it is. Dark night of the soul sometimes using to see the good right in the middle of the darkness and loss is a discipline but a life-changing discipline like surrendering I keep saying I get up in the morning and i.

18:54.40
Holly
Ah.

18:54.70
twelve12ministries
Um, yes.

19:01.64
twelve12ministries
Um, no.

19:05.52
Holly
That's so good.

19:11.23
Holly
I.

19:11.70
Barbara Byers
I choose you you know I choose you I remember years ago a friend she had tried every way to get pregnant with the baby. They ended up adopting 2 children later but there was a time when she knew it was over and she didn't get out of bed for a week a week she didn't show.

19:28.57
Holly
On august.

19:31.65
Barbara Byers
She didn't wash her hair. She didn't do She didn't do anything because she knew that was the end of something and she she had to go through the process of of grief and one of the things grief does. It's been created by God who.

19:44.45
twelve12ministries
Um, even.

19:50.20
Barbara Byers
As a healthy process process to keep us healthy. It's the process of accepting What is this is real. This suffering is real and it's mine I don't want it gosh I'd like to avoid it and wish it away but it's mine.

19:50.25
Holly
Earth.

19:52.83
twelve12ministries
It.

20:10.17
Barbara Byers
But accepting it processing through the grief with the myriad of emotions and the myriad of different ways of processing unique to all of us coming to places. Where we let it in more and more we accept it more and more and incorporating it in where we can make it part of our narrative so it has meaning to Us. We've got. We've got to do that in God's ah.

20:39.78
twelve12ministries
Um.

20:44.66
Barbara Byers
He's always helping us tell our story aright. It takes a while for us to become objective making it part of our story and then now we are in a place where we can accept new things coming in. We're ready for some new things.

20:50.14
twelve12ministries
Um.

20:58.37
Holly
A.

21:04.38
Barbara Byers
The loss is there. The love is there the longings there but it's not so intense and we're able to be a little more resilient and we're able now to open ourself up like like my friend did okay all right can do that. What's the future. What can I.

21:20.26
Holly
And.

21:21.76
twelve12ministries
Yes.

21:23.18
Barbara Byers
Well today I can get out of bed maybe and wash my hair you know and call and today I can think about something new with my husband today I can say father you haven't left me what what do you have? You're still writing my story.

21:25.11
Holly
Yes.

21:41.18
Holly
Luma That's good.

21:42.63
Barbara Byers
You have you know and what promises are still alive that I'm to keep taking hold of right? Yeah, how are we doing on time I have I can say we.

21:45.40
Holly
Be. Love that I could just listen to her all day long. Love it.

21:59.39
twelve12ministries
Ah I know me too me too.

22:03.91
Barbara Byers
Ah, oh.

22:06.20
Holly
Love it so much. Thank you Barbara that was so good.

22:09.79
Barbara Byers
Yeah, you're welcome. Do I have a little more time or are we are we? Okay, ah right? So you know you've probably heard um ah some research that was done.

22:13.54
twelve12ministries
Um, yes I'm like go. Yes, we're gonna go for it.

22:25.50
Barbara Byers
And they took that research Elizabeth Kubler -ross and she she did it with a certain segment of the population and then you know then it got taken in and staged as the 5 stages of grief which she never intended and really isn't true. They're they're parts and pieces of grief.

22:38.48
Holly
Um, of.

22:44.20
Barbara Byers
So let me just talk a little bit about the task of grief and Grief is very like waves in the ocean you kind of you're sitting there at the edge. Maybe even enjoying you know the beach and.

22:48.25
Holly
Ah.

22:54.41
twelve12ministries
Um.

22:59.52
Holly
Yeah, you think you're floating.

23:03.53
Barbara Byers
Think you're yeah you think youre did and all of us mean what you don't expect a big one comes in and just threatens to engulf you and I think our ah you know our natural tendency is I'm going to fight it. Oh my gosh I got to get it for air I'm going to fight it.

23:11.51
Holly
Are skin.

23:23.31
Barbara Byers
When actually if we would let it overcome us and relax into it. The wave would take us out a little way and and deposit us right? and I think Grief is very much those unexpected ways sometimes something will trigger it. You know you're you're talking.

23:26.84
twelve12ministries
Oh. Right.

23:40.50
twelve12ministries
He.

23:43.15
Barbara Byers
Friend who just got pregnant. You're driving down a street and remembers something but a lot of times nothing triggers it. It's just it's just come up in our heart and if sometimes granted occasionally you know where I'm staying on the frozen food aisle and Tom thumb.

23:50.24
Holly
Um.

24:01.87
Holly
Again.

24:02.90
Barbara Byers
And I can't just sob right? And so I pull myself together and at the first opportunity I schedule a grief time. We actually schedule that like I'm gonna get the kids in bed or I'm gonna do whatever I'm gonna take.

24:02.45
twelve12ministries
Um.

24:13.94
Holly
Ah.

24:19.63
Holly
It's a good idea.

24:21.32
Barbara Byers
Don't get in the park and I'm going to sit with my journal and I'm going to bring those feelings back up and sometimes I need to scream sometimes I need to cry sometimes I need to acknowledge the hot anger the hot anger that can be part of grief.

24:26.72
Holly
Um.

24:40.47
Barbara Byers
That can make me feel so powerful sometimes you know because Anger is pretty pretty powerful but um, and and some people are more you know, just emotionally expressive. Some people are more modulated. They're more thinkers.

24:43.47
Holly
Um, and.

24:58.50
Barbara Byers
And we have to allow everyone and often male and female will be quite different with cause issues in marriages. Oh you're not grieving and he's thinking am grieving I'm just at a deeper place inside. Maybe you're more expressive.

25:01.60
Holly
Are.

25:04.98
twelve12ministries
Um.

25:07.95
twelve12ministries
Um, yeah.

25:15.74
Barbara Byers
So we need to give people their own place and how they express that you know so instead of these like acceptance bargaining sadness pieces that Kubler Ross found William Warden suggests for tasks of grief.

25:33.71
twelve12ministries
So.

25:34.86
Holly
Um, ah.

25:35.45
Barbara Byers
Ah, really I really like there because grief is it. There is some task and if we avoid them. We're going to get stuck someplace I have had clients over the years who were stuck their mother died at 12

25:41.78
twelve12ministries
Um, yeah.

25:48.48
Holly
Oh my.

25:51.13
Barbara Byers
Or they had a sudden move and a loss of their dad's income and no one helped them understand it. No one helped them grieve it as children need to grieve and so they may come like I can remember 1 lady she came quite depressed and after a while I said. You know, let's look and see if there's some losses in your life that you haven't grieved I'm not sure this is depression I think this is grief trying to find a way up and so we did a loss line and a loss line is simply you can just do it like on. A.

26:21.72
twelve12ministries
E.

26:30.30
Barbara Byers
You can tape some paper together you know and you start back when your mother was pregnant with you. Maybe maybe her father died when she was pregnant with you. Oh that's a loss that you don't remember but you somehow took in in utero her. She grieved.

26:36.84
Holly
Um, laugh.

26:49.81
Holly
Um.

26:50.00
Barbara Byers
Maybe maybe at four you had your first your dog died and you had to bury it. Okay and then maybe at's 7 you had to move out of ah, a neighborhood with all where all your friends were and go to a different school and you know at 15 a grandparent died or.

26:50.21
twelve12ministries
Um.

27:09.19
Barbara Byers
Parents divorce and so you do this loss line and you record it. But you also record 2 other things with it. You record? what do I remember about that time that I experienced and felt that may not be quite so easy when you were younger. But you know, maybe it's just enough to say felt confused. All the adults were ignoring me or they were all you know whatever it was so what happened what did you feel an experience and the third thing is who helped you who to you.

27:30.37
Holly
Nice.

27:43.33
Holly
Um, it's good.

27:44.39
twelve12ministries
Um, calm.

27:45.12
Barbara Byers
Who who was there for you I know this one lady I talked to her mother and I think she was 11 and everybody had believed for her mother's healing and then she died and and nobody kind of explained it all to her. Her dad was a.

27:54.85
Holly
Um, I know this.

28:02.38
Barbara Byers
Kind of a quiet passive man and and she was just like you know what happened to my life and then in her thirty s we were bringing that up and processing and of course the Lord met her in that he he loved to meet. Um, so some task and grief I got off track. Sorry.

28:06.76
Holly
Love.

28:16.51
Holly
Um.

28:22.60
Barbara Byers
Number 1 and that little bit holy know. Ah normal has just shifted and we don't all let go. But gradually we begin to accept the reality. There's loss and normal has shifted.

28:26.23
Holly
It's okay.

28:33.33
twelve12ministries
Um.

28:39.71
Holly
Um, and I.

28:40.21
Barbara Byers
Love kind of where's that love going to go now right? Okay number 2 we experience fully and acknowledge the pain of the loss so grief has its own timetable. It has its own waves.

28:43.54
twelve12ministries
Wow.

28:44.10
Holly
Um.

28:50.76
Holly
Math.

28:58.50
Barbara Byers
So we honor our grief. We honor that grief. Someone said when we don't intentionally grieve we often unknowingly allow our hurts to become the centerpieces of our life and then we build these walls you know to to keep to keep it in.

29:00.45
Holly
That's good.

29:11.52
Holly
And so true. Yeah.

29:11.56
twelve12ministries
Um.

29:17.87
Barbara Byers
To defend ourself. We're trying to fill the emptiness and numb the pain. The third task of grief he said is we have to adjust to a new environment without so without the the one we loved.

29:21.40
Holly
The.

29:36.47
Barbara Byers
Without the dream we had without the pregnancy this time without whatever we so yearn for right? so because we have deeply invested something emotionally. And yeah, there's that empty place and so now.

29:52.11
Holly
Ah.

29:55.77
Barbara Byers
We have to learn to tell a new story and invest again eventually now there's some comp usually grief is takes about 2 years but there's some complicated grief that takes longer writing is my third try and I lost the baby I can.

30:06.89
Holly
Us.

30:14.61
Barbara Byers
If this if it's the death of a child That's usually a very complicated grief and if it takes long. Um, um, we have to forage new things. You know as we look ahead and often we don't want to do this I Just want to go back I want them? um.

30:28.10
Holly
Will says.

30:31.13
twelve12ministries
Um, from yeah yeah.

30:33.44
Barbara Byers
I Don't want to live like this So one of our then significant tasks here excuse me is to construct meaning out of our pain and God loves to bring meaning in our suffering as we keep surrendering and trusting.

30:42.60
Holly
Nice.

30:50.50
Holly
That's good.

30:52.34
Barbara Byers
We keep finding. You're so good. You're so good. You're so good and your way is better. Doesn't feel better I don't like it. Oh you're so good and I trust you? um so whatever. However, that loss has really challenged us.

31:02.15
twelve12ministries
Yes.

31:04.68
Holly
That's good.

31:10.52
Barbara Byers
We need to construct new meaning or reconstruct sometimes um god takes that loss and it becomes this seed for new things to emerge you know Jesus said that unless the seed goes into the ground it dies it abidees alone. But if it dies.

31:27.25
Holly
Ah.

31:27.81
Barbara Byers
It can emerge and bring much fruit. So one of the little books I love was written probably late late 1940 s by a man named Victor Frankel it's been a best seller every year since called man search for meaning just told Victor Frankl

31:31.55
twelve12ministries
Amen.

31:39.71
Holly
Um, it's so good.

31:45.40
twelve12ministries
Um.

31:47.72
Barbara Byers
Was a vienneseauustrian psychotherapist and he started his own school of psychotherapy called logo therapy because he went against Freud because Freud said we are we are motivated by pleasure. That's our main motivation. And Frankel said no, we're motivated by meaning so he was in the states he was lecturing he and his wife she was pregnant but things are really heating up because of the nazis coming across Europe and he went back to Austria.

32:10.57
twelve12ministries
Um, on.

32:23.52
Barbara Byers
Because of his parents and brother and sister they got captured put in concentration camps his father his mother his brother and his pregnant life all died in the concentration camps. And he was in 4 different concentration camps he he survived and three months later he came out of the concentration camp and was lecturing because he said the meaning of my life is to help other people human meaning and here's what he said.

32:59.41
twelve12ministries
Um.

33:00.25
Barbara Byers
Three months after years in concentration camp I mean they starved him they you know all horrors and losing everyone. He loved except his sister escaped. He said life is beautiful and life is meaningful.

33:17.67
Holly
Wow.

33:18.44
twelve12ministries
Um.

33:19.36
Barbara Byers
Bright and he didn't I mean he was jewish and he was. He was a committed Jew but I don't know what he knew of the lord I know he read the psalms but life is beautiful and life is meaningful on top of all of that loss.

33:31.88
twelve12ministries
Um, yes.

33:38.79
Barbara Byers
He was able to say that so we have to construct new meaning and the fourth thing that Warden says is we invest in the reality of New life and we begin turning more toward the new.

33:53.54
Holly
Um, was.

33:56.12
Barbara Byers
And toward what we can have and toward what the lord is planning in new dreams then we turn to the past we remember and we grieve some but it's not so acute and it's not so intense. You know pain often reduces us to the agenda of the spirit and in and think that's not original with me but in a back 3 1 and 18 he says you know there's.

34:14.81
twelve12ministries
Who.

34:16.15
Holly
Um, that's Mary again.

34:28.80
Barbara Byers
The figs aren't producing. There's no, there's no figs on the on the tree and there's no grapes on the vine and there's no olives and there's no sheep or cattle in the pen. It's loss yet I will rejoice in the lord for the Sovereign Lord is my strength.

34:46.47
twelve12ministries
Um, and home.

34:48.80
Barbara Byers
Yet I will rejoice and that's what really writes a new story for us is the yet I will turn to you? Yeah, trust you are my emmanuel always with me.

34:53.69
Holly
Move. Yes.

34:54.94
twelve12ministries
Yes.

35:00.10
Holly
So good.

35:01.23
twelve12ministries
That is beautiful Barbara thank you so much. Thank you thank you I am this my heart is encouraged and I know our listeners are just going to be so blessed by you and just thank you for helping us find our voice within grief.

35:05.26
Barbara Byers
You are so welcome.

35:10.75
Holly
Yes.

35:18.44
Barbara Byers
Um, ah good.

35:21.21
twelve12ministries
And especially those 4 tasks I thought that really that was the first time I had heard that and so that is just oh man it brings so much peace peace for me.

35:22.64
Holly
Me too.

35:26.97
Barbara Byers
Okay, ah his book. Oh his book ups I didn't write it down tiger but it's William Warden W R and and and thank you thank you? you.

35:37.46
twelve12ministries
Ok, we will definitely put that in the show notes for everybody. Yeah yes, Barbara yes, we are just so grateful for you.

35:44.94
Barbara Byers
Yeah I think he's got it I loved being with you.

35:49.58
Holly
Yes, you are a gift. Yes sweet Barbara check it. She just like calms me calm sweet Jesus filled lady I like her.

35:57.91
twelve12ministries
And ah like talk to you all day. Yes, love it. Thanks again. Barbara yes, his presence in this piece friends. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of the purpose beyond motherhood podcast. We are so grateful that you are listening.

36:03.96
Barbara Byers
Um, yeah, his presence and his peace. Yeah.

36:04.00
Holly
Yes I Love that.

36:15.30
twelve12ministries
If you need anything at all, please know that we are here for you find us online at we are twelve twelve dot org see you soon.

36:17.56
Holly
Yes.

People on this episode

Nicole Clark

Host

Holly Piorkowski

Co-host